Listen On

In This Episode:
01:57 – Getting to know Jesse Forrest and his copywriting background
04:55 – Mistakes businesses make when it comes to copywriting and how to avoid them
07:49 – Importance of knowing your target audience when copywriting
09:48 – Essence of having a call to action
13:17 – Things people should focus on when it comes to copywriting for a Website copy, Sales/Optin Landing Page, Brochures
18:17 – Importance of making sure your content makes people want to take action quickly
20:05 – Tips for Email content
22:14 – Jesse Forrest’s thoughts on HTML type emails versus plain text emails
25:55 – Copywriting for print advertising and print marketing
28:01 – Importance directing people to a specific landing page, not your home page
30:06 – Formula for offline copywriting (AIDA)

Transcription: 

Liza: Hi, it’s Liza Choa here, founder of Content Maximiser. Welcome to another episode of the Content Maximiser podcast. Today, I’m interviewing one of Australia’s leading copyrighter Jesse Forrest. In the last ten years, he’s worked with hundreds of different clients and written copy for every considerable industry topic and niche market imaginable, from finance and business to health and wellness to dating and relationships.

His copy has achieved stunning results for his clients, from smashing previous best month sales records, doubling revenue and attracting tons of new customers. He specialises in writing website copy, email campaigns, sales pages, video scripts, brochure copy, direct mail, print ads and more. So, you are in for a great treat. Let’s now jump straight into it.

Hey Jesse.

Jesse: Hi Liza.

Liza: Thank you so much for joining us on this podcast to talk about how to copy write for a website and more!

Jesse: Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Liza: Yes, knowing how busy you are, I think our listeners are really in for a great treat!

Jesse: Yes, well, I’m excited to share some awesome content.

Liza: Nice. Okay, cool, well let’s just go straight into it. So, Jesse, maybe you can start with just sharing with us your background in relation to copywriting.

Jesse: Yes, no worries. So, I’ve been copywriting for ten years. I started in 2004 and before that I was in a sales position and I really didn’t like my job. I didn’t like selling to people face to face and I also didn’t really believe in the product that we were selling. So, I learned all about sales from being in a sales job and I learned about marketing. And through learning about marketing, I discovered copywriting. As someone who’s a little bit introverted, I can be an extrovert but often…

Liza: I wouldn’t have guessed.

Jesse: I can certainly be an extrovert and you and I have hung out before and I think that we both can be extrovert, but I’m a bit of an introvert sometimes. So copywriting really appealed to me because it was all about psychology, which is understanding people and understanding how to make people do things that you want them to do. I’ve always been interested in psychology and human behaviour. Copywriting is part psychology and it’s also part writing and I’ve always loved writing. So it combines two things that I’m really interested in doing. I discovered it ten years ago and I started copywriting at night after work in my sales job and I just fell in love with it, so I practiced writing a lot. I read lots of books on copywriting. I went to lots of seminars and courses. A few months later, maybe 6 months later, I started my copywriting career. I went out and set up a website and actively started seeking clients and yeah, that was ten years ago. It’s been a long journey.

I’ve been very fortunate to have worked with a lot of the big names in marketing from Jay Abraham to Aman Lauren to Dr. Demartini from The Secret and many others. There’s been so many great clients in the last ten years. Nowadays, I just spend my time writing copies for clients but also teaching copywriting and I speak at lots of seminars throughout the year. Also, I seem to be nowadays talking on a lot of different podcasts and webinars.

I love sharing this knowledge and I also train people nowadays who want to become copywriters on how they can break into this fun and exciting business. So, yeah, I guess it’s the long version but that’s how I got started in copywriting.

Liza: I wouldn’t have guessed that you’ve been in it for 10 years considering how young you look.

Jesse: Well that’s very kind of you Liza and I think you look very young too.

What are the Top 3 Copywriting Mistakes Businesses Make ?

Liza: Oh well thank you. So, let me ask you then, ten years is a long time. You would have seen a lot of mistakes that businesses make when it comes to copywriting. So, what do you see to be the three biggest mistakes that businesses make when it comes to copywriting?

Jesse: Yeah, great question. There are lots of mistakes when it comes to copywriting and to isolate three might be difficult but I guess what I would say is, first of all, the copy they write is all about themselves and the business. So, we have a thing called the WIIFM Radio station and it’s a radio station that everyone is tuning into and people are mostly interested in listening to and that is, it stands for, What’s In It For Me. So, WIIFM, what’s in it for me? So much of the copy you read, whether it’s on websites or in marketing brochures or really anywhere, so much of it just talks about the business owners talking about themselves and their business. They might say, we’ve been in business for 25 years. We give great service and support, we have rated AAA in the industry or whatever.

It’s all we, we, we and we’re great. It’s nothing about or to do with the people they’re trying to influence and sell to, their potential customers. Therefore, when someone is reading that kind of advertising, whether it just say things like, we’ve been in business for 25 years and we are great, they think, well, who cares, like, what’s in it for me? There are no benefits being expressed on how me as the consumer or the potential customer will benefit. So, that’s only one of the big mistakes.

Liza: Yeah, what you said is so true. I see it so often with a lot of businesses that we work with and it kind of reminded me of going on a date for the first time, sitting opposite a guy or a girl and all they do is talk about is themselves. How interesting can that conversation go? Not very. Are they likely to have a second date? Probably not.

Jesse: Exactly. Isn’t it funny how it can be across the boards, even in dating, as you say, that there’s like, people just talk about themselves and actually, if I’m honest, I was on a date last week and this girl did exactly that. I asked her, “Oh what do you do for a living and 20 minutes later she’s still going on and on and on about her job.” I seat there just quickly losing interest and thinking, are you going to ask me anything about myself or it’s all about her?

Liza: There’ll be no second date?

Jesse: Probably not. But the idea is in communication which is what copywriting is, its communication. It’s trying to influence a target audience, your target market. You need to really understand them and the way we understand them is through research. The research that we do gives us the information we need to influence those people.

When I have a new client, I’ll ask them a whole bunch of questions and one of them is, who is the target audience? What are their problems? What are their interests? What are their desires? What are their frustrations?

With these answers I can try and intimately understand them so that when we write a copy, the people, the target audience who read it are going to think wow, they really understand me and they really seem to get what I’m going through. We can’t help but want to spend money with that kind of company.

There was a great headline in America on a billboard and I don’t recommend this headline because I think it’s a little bit vague but it was certainly powerful. The headline read, “You want what you want. You want what you want.” Now, that might get our attention because we think, and we can agree with that and it’s good to come out with headlines that your prospect agrees with.

You never want to say something that might be polarising, where they read it and they think, “Oh, no, I don’t believe that or I don’t agree with that statement,” and then they’re going to be turned off. But the idea is, you want what you want. That’s got “you” three times, I think three times in that headline, it’s all about, yeah, talking to the audience.

Liza: Twice. Great, okay. So, that’s one of the first mistakes and I believe it is one of the biggest mistakes with businesses always talking about themselves. Another two that we could think of Jesse?

Jesse: Yes, definitely. Another one would be that there’s no call to action. So, the call…

Liza: What does that mean?

Jesse: So, the call to action or CTA means telling your readers or your prospects, what you want them to do specifically. So, no call to action. Now, they might think well, we’ve got our phone number on our ad, certainly they must know we should call them. Well, not really, unless you’re telling people what to do, then people don’t really follow when there’s no direction. So, it’s much more effective if you have, maybe this ties into that, but, you want to have a compelling offer. So, I would say mistake number three is not having a compelling offer and mistake number two would be there’s no call to action.

So, these tie in together. I’ll explain what these mean. Let’s say you have advertising and it could be again, a website, it could be an email campaign, it could be even a billboard or a print ad. The first thing you want to do is have a compelling offer. Now, an offer might be something where they read that offer and they think “Wow, that’s a great offer or that’s a great deal. I’m going to take advantage of it.” There’s a few ways you can make compelling offers. It could be showing the value of your price. Now, that might be discounting.

You might say prices usually 997 but today it’s 297. Well, that’s a compelling offer. Another one might be a free report or free video series if you have a website and then you show that the video series is really valuable. You can show a dollar value for that ten video series and you offer that for free. That’s a compelling offer. These are just some examples, you could discount, you could offer things for free, You might offer extra bonuses, you might offer free shipping, whatever it is, make a compelling offer and then tell people how they can claim this offer.

Liza: Yes.

Jesse: So, it might be call up our toll free number on 1800, blah, blah to claim this offer, or it might be, if it’s something for sale, you might say, “To claim your 50 percent discount, fill out the form below or click the link below and claim your discount” or whatever it might be. You want to make a compelling offer and you want to tell people how they can get that offer with a call to action. Tell them exactly what you want them to do because too many times, there’s no offer and no call to action, so people read the copy and they think, “Oh that sounds good, it sounds okay,” and then they think, “Oh, maybe I’ll look at this later and they leave.”

Liza: Yes. Really, it’s…

Jesse: Yeah, a compelling offer and a good call to action then, you’re way ahead of your competition of who are not doing these things.

What are the Main Differences for Website Copywriting and Print Copywriting?

Liza: Great, so Jesse let me ask you, in terms of copywriting for business, there are really three main types of copywriting. So, there’s website copies, for example, the about us page or the product or services page. The second type of copywriting is like a sales or an opt in landing page where there’s a specific page dedicated to get someone to take action, like, what you just talked about.

The third one is like printed brochures, with their corporate information and so forth. What are three things people should focus on, on each of these categories because they’re all different medium and different things. Would you say there are different things that you should do depending on what type of medium they are?

Jesse: Yes, good question Liza. They are definitely different mediums. Like you say, we could really put these into offline copy and online copy. Now, online copy is obviously websites, landing pages, email campaigns, even video scripts. All these things are online copy, an online medium. And then of course there is offline copy as well, which could be brochures, direct mail, post cards, newspaper advertising, magazine advertising, that’s all offline copy.

There are certainly different things you can do when it comes to writing online copy and writing offline copy. Now, people are still the same. It’s still people reading and consuming the copies, we’re still dealing with people. We’re not dealing with aliens or something. We’re still communicating through copy to people. But the difference is behaviour. People online behave differently when they’re online to people who are offline and the way they behave differently is I would say, when you’re in front of your computer, you probably have a shorter attention span than you do when you’re sitting down and reading a letter, which might be direct mail or you’re reading a magazine.

Now, you may not often notice how you behave, because it’s often subconscious or unconscious behaviour but certainly, yes, we behave differently, and so we need to write differently. For example, I recommend with a direct mail campaign, that when we send direct mail to prospects, we send a coloured envelope, I prefer a blue colour or maybe red or orange colour envelope with a handwritten address and an actual stamp. Now, what does that look like when you receive something like that in the mail?

Liza: Like a letter from a friend.

Jesse: Like a letter from a friend. Maybe it’s an invitation. Some people might assume it’s a wedding invitation or a birthday card. It looks very personalised, but inside, it’s actually direct mail, it’s advertising. But, immediately, that’s going to get someone’s interest instead of all of the other bills or junk mail that’s been stuffed into their letterbox. They’ll probably open it first thinking it’s personalised. So, imagine that someone receiving that letter walking into their lounge room, sitting on the lounge, then opening it, they’re probably going to open it first. They’re going to be greatly interested. What is this? Who is it from? Now, compare that to someone receiving an email from some kind of promotional advertising, maybe even for the same product. Compare this with the email in terms of their attention span, the engagement on reading that email is going to be so much shorter than someone sitting down opening an envelope and reading a letter.

So, this is what I’m trying to illustrate, the different behaviours dictate how we’re going to write the copy. So, to answer your question, how do we write a copy for online and how is it different to offline? Well, with online, let’s talk about websites first. With a sales page, so think of a sales page which has one purpose and that is to get someone to read the copy and then buy whatever the product is.

Liza: Or take action.

Jesse: Or take action, which might be saying, opt in page or landing page and that’s where there might be one call to action, which is what we want people to do, give us a name, email address, and click a submit button in that scenario. So let’s think of that. With this type of copy, because it’s the Internet, because we know people are going to have shorter attention spans, what we want to do is we want to write copy that is going to get them to stop and read the copy first and foremost, because we know they’re going to be clicking around and have multiple tabs open. They might be simultaneously looking at Facebook. So, what we want to do, which so many people do…

Liza: Yes, they do it, for sure.

Jesse: Yes. Even nowadays, did you know that with TV, TV is actually getting worse when it comes to entertainment value. There’s so many reality TV shows now, and sometimes we think what the, how do they come up with this crap? They’re allowed to because they know most people nowadays, when they’re watching TV, they’ll have their laptop in their lap, they’re probably on Facebook, they have their mobile phone in their other hand, and they’re texting or tweeting or snap chatting or whatever they’re doing, or on What’s app.

So, they’ve got three devices on, TV, laptop and mobile, they’re really distracted. So, what we want to do is we want a copy that is going to get them to take action quite quickly and the way we do that is I often, with websites, I’m writing copy with the idea in mind that someone is probably quickly scanning and scrolling the copy. So, I’ll do things like have sub headings that break up the page and I’ll have imaging with captions underneath that grab people’s attention who are probably scrolling and scanning to get them to stop and start reading.

If they don’t read any of the copy, well then, there’s no communication and therefore, they’re not absorbing the copy, and they’re probably not going to take any action. So, step number one that’s writing website copy, is you want to write the copy and design the page with the idea in mind that people are probably going to be scanning and scrolling it.

Liza: That’s a really good point.

Jesse: Yes, so you want to use not too many but you want to break up the copy with, what I call sub headlines or sub headings. It’s basically headings throughout the page. You want to have images that grab their attention that show some kind of benefit. That’s going to really help when it comes with landing pages and online sales pages.

Liza: Yes.

Jesse: So, with email campaigns I can, if we’ve got time, I can briefly talk about that.

Liza: Yes, sure.

Lets Talk Email Marketing and Email Copy Writing

Jesse: Email copy, the most important thing with email copy is who is sending me the email? If you don’t know the person sending you the email, if you’ve never heard of them, it really doesn’t matter how great your copy is because they’re probably just going to delete it.

Liza: Yes, if you’re going to talk about emails I’ve got a couple of questions. You touch on a really good point on who it comes from. Now, a lot of businesses send emails from email addresses like [email protected] or [email protected], so they don’t actually use a person’s name, they use kind of a generic email address. What’s your thoughts on that?

Jesse: Yes. I think it should be as personalised as possible, your emails. So, when I say personalised, that means instead of sending it from, as you say, [email protected], your company name or whatever the business is called, or [email protected], that’s not very personal, is it?

Liza: No.

Jesse: So, I think if you’re going to have it from the business owner, like my email go out from Jesse Forrest and I have a database which I email and it’s from Jesse Forrest and also, I sign off as Jesse Forrest and my email address is [email protected] People can totally feel like it’s from me and it is from me. It’s harder for, I think big corporations to do that, the CEO probably doesn’t have time to broadcast and read emails, but it could certainly be from the marketing manager, as opposed to something generic about the company. It could be from the marketing manager, or even just the person sending the email. It’s better than having that than from some faceless kind of email address.

Liza: Yes, because that would increase the opt-in rate I would assume.

Jesse: Yeah, definitely. The most important thing with email marketing is what relationship do you have with the sender? You at least want to know who they are and recognise the name. That’s the first step.

Liza: Sure. The other question I have with email marketing, is, a lot of businesses, they do those really pretty, colorful type of emails like the HTML emails, and then some people they use this plain text. What’s your thoughts on the difference between the two and what would have a better conversion rate?

Jesse: Yes, great question. So, I’ve never sent out HTML emails. Now, that doesn’t mean they don’t work, I think they do work and I think some big companies like especially some electronic companies like JB Hi-Fi, like Kogan.com, which is one of the biggest online electronics retailers, certainly in Australia, worth I think at least a few hundred million dollars. They do a lot of email marketing. Unfortunately, most of their emails that I get from them, as a subscriber, they go straight to my promotions tab inside of Gmail, but they’re all HTML emails.

Liza: Yes.

Jesse: I don’t think they’re bad. They can work if they’re designed well and people can easily click through to what they want. I think that’s fine but typically, certainly with all of my clients, I’ve only ever written and had my clients send out actual, like text emails, text only.

Liza: Yes. It sounds like HTML emails might work better if you’re sending out an online brochure, rather than having like a personal conversation with your prospect.

Jesse: Exactly. The best kind of emails to send are ones that seem like they’re from a friend. I don’t think many of our friends are going to be sending out…

Liza: HTML emails to us.

Jesse: Pretty designed HTML emails so, people are expecting a catalog, like you might subscribe to an electronics store like Kogan or JB Hi-Fi or Canon or even some like Apple perhaps. I’m guessing most of these we expect to receive HTML emails because we want to see their catalog.

We probably want to know what the latest product is, but for most businesses who are not in that space, they want to communicate with their database and they don’t have an electronics catalog or something similar to that, then I think text emails are the best and this is probably a whole other podcast but I think the bottom line with email campaign is you want to make sure they have a relationship with the people that you’re sending to.

Liza: Yes.

Jesse: You want focus a lot of your time in coming up with a good email subject line and then the email itself should not go for too long. What I mean by that is, probably less than 500 words. You want to focus on having short paragraphs so maybe three to four lines of copy before the next paragraph. You want to have your link which is your call to action at the top in the middle and towards the end repeated inside that email. So, you have the link after the first paragraph and then somewhere in the middle again, the same link, and then towards the bottom of the email, because people also scan and scroll emails when they receive them.

Liza: Yes, definitely. So, yes, I think we might have to invite you back just for an episode on email marketing.

Jesse: Yes sure.

What about Offline Copywriting?

Liza: Yes, so let’s talk a bit about the offline prints. So, what about the likes of print advertising, print marketing and copywriting around that?

Jesse: Yes. That really is like, the oldest copy in the book. That is print advertising, mail order advertising. Some people remember those, I certainly do, before the Internet really became commercialised, we had a lot of catalogs being sent in the mail. We had direct mail. There were a lot of print ads, a lot of offline advertising. Now, a lot of that still exists but more of it is based on the Internet. The tips for offline copy, so writing print ads and direct mail and all of that, really is the length.

If I’m buying space in a newspaper or a magazine, let’s say a one page ad, I’m restricted with my space. So, with online, say a website, a webpage could be ten pages and I’ve got lots of room to do lots of different things like videos, I can put links, I can put phone numbers. I’ve got lots of room. I’m not restricted by space. Now, the difference is, with offline obviously, we can’t say click on this link or watch this video because it might be a newspaper ad or a magazine ad and so, our call to action might be, call this number or visit this website.

Now, that’s the first thing. Different medium means smaller space. Also, it means we can’t show video, we can’t say click on links. So, what we probably tell people to do is to call the number or visit a website. Ultimately, you want to say both, so you want to giving them the option to call or give them the option to visit a website.

Liza: Yes. You raised a really good point there in terms of the call to action to call a phone number or to go to a website. One of the mistakes I see a lot of businesses do when they send people to a website is they send them to their homepage, rather than a specific landing page. So, once people go to the homepage, they can get lost and don’t know where to go so, then they just disappear. Whereas, if you send them to a specific landing page where there’s a call to action there, then you can make it very easy for people to take the next step where you can capture their information.

Jesse: Yes, totally. That makes a lot of sense and that probably is one of the big problems, Liza, you touched on with online strategy, with web marketing and that is the whole idea of sending people just to your home page. It’s much better to have, whatever your copy is talking about, you want to send them to a specific landing page that matches what you talked about in the first piece of copy. So, if I had a, let’s say we had an ad in a newspaper, maybe that was offering a free seminar all about online marketing that we want people to register for and attend and so the headline might be free seminar reveals how to grow your business with online marketing or something like that.

Then we have all of the copy. Again, we’re limited to just one page so were going to go through a particular formula which I will talk about but the call to action might be to register your free seat, call 1800 whatever, or visit our website, which is contentMaximiser.com/seminar or free seminar. So, when they click on the, not click on but when they’re typing –

Liza: Yes, when they type it.

Jesse: When they type that in, they’re going to get taken to a landing page, which has maybe a bit of information about the seminar and then it has, the registration box.

The Proven Formula of Copywriting

Liza: Jesse you mentioned that there is a specific formula to follow when you do offline copywriting. Would you be happy to share the formula?

Jesse: Yes absolutely. I’m happy to share the formula. The formula is an old formula that was invented more than 50 years ago, probably even up to 80 years ago and that was called the AIDA formula and first of all, it’s AIDA and the first A stands for attention.

Liza: Okay.

Jesse: And then we have I and I stands for interest. There’s D, D stands for desire and then the final A stands for action.

Liza: Nice.

Jesse: So, attention, interest, desire, action. You can think of this as the structure to your advertising, and this is going to work when you’re writing online or offline advertising.

Lets start with attention, how do we get attention? Well we do that with a headline and we can often do it with an image, probably both. We want to have a headline in our copy or advertising. Often we see in the newspapers, and newspapers are actually a good format to follow because they often follow this formula as well.

They don’t often ask for action, desire or interest but they’re very good at getting us to read their articles and they do it by having a compelling headline and they do it by having an image that grabs our attention, usually, celebrities who are fighting or some kind of, action image. We don’t want to do that but we might have an image of ourselves if we’re selling ourself. We might have an image of the benefits people receive if they buy whatever is we’re selling or if they do business with us. So first thing is, headline and an image that’s going to grab attention. That’s how we do A for attention.

I for interest, that’s all about what you say in your opening paragraphs. We want to make sure that our opening paragraph is compelling. When people read it, they’re going to be interested in reading more.

The role of your first sentence that you write after the headline should be to engage people, to keep them interested and an easy way to do that is to ask questions that they probably want the answer to or they can identify to. I’ll give you some examples. Example from some copy I wrote last year was, and again I asked, identifying questions, so I know from doing research the prospect or the visitor or the reader are most likely going to say yes to. Here’s what I wrote for the opening sentence for this copy that was targeted at trades people, ie. plumbers, carpenters, builders.

Liza: Okay.

Jesse: It started with a question and that question was: Do you stay up late at night doing administrative tasks when you know there’s probably a better way? Do you ever feel like you spend your whole life working? Do you ever feel guilty about not spending enough time with your partner, family or kids because you’re so busy? So, these are questions probably that a lot of business owners can relate to but certainly trade business owners can relate to as well.

We know through research that they complained about these areas, so by speaking their language and talking to them directly, asking these identifying questions, they’re going to feel like we understand them and they’re going to be interested. They are going to say, “Yes, this is me, I wonder what they’re going to prescribe as a solution to these problems that I can identify with.”

If I was writing for an eczema product, I would use the same technique. I would probably say something like, “Do you wake up at night because you have itchy skin and the urge to itch and scratch your skin is strong?” I might say it a bit better than this but the idea is there. Ask a question…

Liza: That they can relate to.

Jesse: They can relate to, that they certainly understand. So, often my first paragraph or first few lines of copy is asking identifying questions that the prospect would answer yes to because, it’s a great way of building interest.

The next thing you want to do is desire. So, after I’ve talked about their problems, I’m going to build desire by telling them that there is a solution to their problems and that their life can turn around. They can get the benefits that they seek, the desires they have. So, let’s say we’re talking about Eczema and we’ve identified their problems, we’ve built that interest. Now, when we talk about desire, we’re going to say the solution. We’re going to talk about what life could be like and I might say, “Wouldn’t it be great if you had smooth, clear beautiful skin?” “Wouldn’t it be awesome if…

Liza: “You can go to the beach and feel comfortable in your own skin and not having to cover up?”

Jesse: Exactly. There you go, wow. That’s great copy right there, Liza.

Liza: “Imagine going out at night wearing your little black dress and feeling totally at ease in it.”

Jesse: Yes, hey, you’re a good copy writer Liza, that’s exactly what you should do. Painting the desire of what life could be like without those problems. Again, you could do for trades people, we could say, “Wouldn’t it be great if you could come home early and have dinner with your family and put your kids to bed instead of working all night into the evening?”

“Wouldn’t it be great if finally you didn’t have to do an administrative or paperwork task again and because you had the systems and the team to handle it for you, without blowing your budget.” We say all these things, they’re going to say yes, yes, yes I want this stuff. What is it? I’m interested. I desire whatever it is they’re talking about. Then of course there’s more to this process and we may not have time today to cover everything I would write in the sales page or promotion or advertising but the next step is action.

Liza: Yes.

Jesse: So, once we’ve done the previous steps and we know the person now is very interested in whatever it is we’re selling and we’ve presented the product in, after talking about what life could be like, we also in desire, we’ll not only paint a picture of what life could be like but we’ll also say now we have this product and this product can give you all of those things. So, after we’ve talked about our product we then want to tell them how to take action, how to get this product that’s going to help them.

That again is making a strong offer like we talked about in the beginning of the call and then telling people exactly what we want them to do in order to get them to purchase this product or if it’s not about buying a product, it’s what action step do we want to take. We tell them precisely how to do that. That is the AIDA formula. Now, it’s a brief formula. It’s basic but it’s very effective and it’s been used to create advertising, like I said, for at least the last 50 years by many different copywriters who follow this formula.

Liza: Nice. Well, formulas are always good because it gives you a guide.

Jesse: Absolutely.

Liza: Yes, brilliant. Thank you so much. You’ve shared a lot of golden nuggets through this podcast today. I really appreciate your time. So, listeners, if you want to learn more about Jesse Forrest and his copywriting service, just go to thewebcopywriter.com. We’re going to include the link in this show notes as well, so you can go directly to Jesse’s site and check him out. So, Jesse, thank you so much for your time once again.

Jesse: Liza it’s been my absolute pleasure and yeah, I have a lot of free advice, information, and also details about my services as Liza said at the webcopywriter.com and yes, thanks for having me on today Liza.

Liza: Thanks Jesse, talk to you soon, bye.

Jesse: Bye.

Liza: Well, I hope you have enjoyed this interview with Jesse Forrest and found a few tips that you can apply to your business. If you like this episode, we would love an iTunes review from you. If you want more useful digital marketing tips, go to contentmaximiser.com. See you next time.

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