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In this interview:

00:29 – Introduction
01:56 – Who is Bernie Birch?
02:49 – Being on both sides of the fence
04:27 – Major changes to the industry in the last five years
04:52 – How the baby boomers, Gen X and Gen Y approach the major changes to the industry
06:54 – Challenges that companies are experiencing in acquiring new distributors
07:44 – How does the challenges change with each generation?
11:01 – The importance of speaking a message that is relevant to specific groups
12:58 – Is there a difference in approach to acquiring customers compared to distributors?
14:10 – Relevance of the Pareto principle
16:13 – Role evolution for direct sales company
19:00 – Major challenges when it comes to customer retention and what are the solutions for it
20:54 – Major challenges when it comes to distributor retention and what are the solutions for it 23:49 – US companies who have business internationally versus International companies that are based in the US
25:56 – Importance of localisation, especially in social media and content marketing
27:55 – Are the companies in Australia leveraging the Internet and multimedia to its full potential? 29:58 – What Bernie thinks could be the trends in the direct sales industry for the next few years 35:20 – Where you can connect with Bernie
35:54 – Today’s action

Transcription:  Liza Choa: Hi, this is Liza Choa. Founder of Content Maximiser. And welcome to another episode of the Content Maximiser podcast. I’m so glad you’ve decided to invest some of your time with me. Today our special guest is Bernie Birch. Bernie has over 20 years experience in the direct sales industry. He’s currently the sales manager for a nutritional company called Reliv, and he’s in charge of the overall growth of the company throughout the whole of Asia-Pacific. He’s instrumental in the implementation of the company’s content marketing and social media strategy. Which has resulted in over a 15% growth within the first year. So now let us jump straight into it.
Liza Choa: Good afternoon Bernie!

Bernie Birch: Well hi Liza, how are you?

Liza Choa: Very well. How are you going?

Bernie Birch: Couldn’t be better. I just got back from doing some training around Southeast Asia. And things are hopping along and I’m feeling very energised.

Liza Choa: I know, you have been travelling all around the place. I can see you are checking in in Facebook on all these different places.

Bernie Birch: At least with Facebook my family knows where I am.

Liza Choa: Yes, well I really appreciate your time that you’ve taken out to join us for this podcast.

Bernie Birch: You’re welcome.

Can you tell us a bit about yourself, especially relating to the Direct Sales industry?

Liza Choa: So let’s go straight into it. Maybe before we get started you can tell us a bit about your background. Especially in relations to the direct sales industry.

Bernie Birch: Sure. I’ve been involved in sales throughout my entire adult life. And I’ve been in the direct sales industry directly since 2001. So that’s 13 years now in one continuous bite. And I was involved back in the 90s, mid 90s for a further four years. So it’s coming up really around 17 years that I’ve been involved in direct sales. And specifically with network marketing. I’ve worked for one of the very large companies, and I’ve worked for small ones and I’ve worked for medium sized ones. I’ve also been a distributor in the field. And I’ve worked on my own businesses. I’ve always been rather entrepreneurial throughout my career. So I’ve experienced a lot of different things.

I’ve experienced what it’s like to not get paid unless you sell something as a commission only sales person. I’ve actually learnt what it’s like to be running a small business and the staff depend on you to make sure that they get paid. And I’ve also experienced the large corporate side of it. The other thing is what I think has been very beneficial to me in my role within the industry is that having been a distributor and successfully built a distributorship. It’s actually given me a real understanding of what it’s like on the other side of the fence. So to speak. Which I think is something a lot of corporate people don’t understand fully.

Liza Choa: What you’ve said is spot on. I mean, 17 years in the industry and being on both sides of the fence really gives you a lot of insights on what is required. And now being in the corporate side, it will really help you to know what needs to be done and implemented. And really fight for it, isn’t it?

Bernie Birch: Yeah, very much so. And I think that it is true there are times when I see decisions that are being made from a corporate sense and I’m able to put up my hand and say well, if we take this and look at this from a distributor’s point of view, I don’t know if that’s the way they would like us to go. But it’s also mainly very aware to consult the leaders consistently. Keep in touch with them. And whenever any major decisions are being made or any changes, to ensure that they’re consulted and there’s a complete buy in on all stakeholders.

What do you see are some of the major changes to the industry in the last five years?

Liza Choa: That’s brilliant. So Bernie, being in the industry for so long, what do you see are some of the major changes to the industry, say, in the last five years?

Bernie Birch: Very simple question to answer. It’s all about online. It’s online strategies. And specifically social media. I think that a company that’s not heavily involved in social media, and have a very clear social media strategy, is literally going to left in the dark. Because the challenge that the industry in general is that of course, the baby boomers have been driving this industry for the last 20 years. But the baby boomers are getting older. The baby boomers don’t have the same reasons to drive their businesses anymore. So you don’t get that same dynamic energy happening from the baby boomers that you did before.

So consequently that leaves Gen X and Gen Y to needing to drive the business. So with social media doing what it is it’s allowing companies to reach out to other demographics and other generations. Because our business truly is global it makes that much easier.

And one of the big trends that I’ve seen is that it’s much harder to get bums on seats at live meetings these days than it used to be. People are much more inclined to be sitting at home. And maybe sitting in their pyjamas watching a business presentation on a webinar. Because they don’t have to get up after being at work all day. And having to fight with the traffic. And get themselves something to eat. And get to a meeting. Whereas people are much more inclined to sit in the company of their own home and go online, than actually go to a meeting.

I see that as a really critical factor on what’s changed and whether company’s can adjust to that. But not only the company but the distributors can adjust to that. And that’s why it’s the whole thing about the baby boomers and Gen X and Gen Y.

Liza Choa: Yeah and what you said is spot on. Because the baby boomers tend to be less tech savvy. Even though there’s the 80-20 rule. Whereas Gen Y with my understanding now, in some companies, like 50% of the distributors are now Gen Y. And so to communicate to them and to reach them is very different to how you would reach and communicate to the baby boomers compared to to reaching Gen Y and Gen X. So what do you see to be some of the challenges that companies are experiencing in acquiring new customers in this current climate?

What do you see to be some of the challenges that companies are experiencing in acquiring new distributors

Bernie Birch: You mean new customers or new distributors?

Liza Choa: New distributors.

Bernie Birch: Okay well I would say that it really does come down to about, because one of the things is that today you need to be online savvy. You need to be involved in social media. You don’t have to be a social media whiz to benefit from it. But you do have to become comfortable with it. And baby boomers really are much more customer orientated these days. They’re more likely to find them as your customers, or you’re preferred customers, whereas you’re right, Gen Y, Gen X as your distributors.

And some of those challenges, it’s interesting because the challenges change obviously with each generation. And each demographic. Gen Y in particular, if it’s not fun, they’re not interested. And what it comes down to in many ways is the corporate leadership in a company. Now that corporate leadership are in their 70s. That corporate leadership are in their 60s even. It’s going to actually change the way that company, what it does is it dictates whether that company chases, and the strategies that are put into place. And the tactics that are used. And I think that there are companies that are obviously out there doing it right. And the companies to get smarter, they need to employ Gen Yers in the relevant marketing positions and they need to embrace the ideas that Gen Y’s come up with. And I know from experience, and we’ve done that really. We have had a Gen Y person and their role is our social media coordinator. And they come up with ideas that I look at sometimes and think I don’t know if that is something that I would do. But respect the fact when I’m talking to a Gen Y who is communicating to Gen Yers, and will get the results.

So the challenges are changing. The paradigm of the corporate leadership to embrace what’s required and be willing to break down the barriers and risen to people who are only 21 and 22 years old. As opposed as to someone who’s got 30 years experience.

Liza Choa: Yeah what you’ve bought up is a really good point. Because now it’s kind of what’s beyond just experience, it’s about relevance. And when having, like you said with Reliv, having a 21 year old who looks after social media, they know what is relevant to the target market. Rather than having all the experience and disregarding some of the ideas because people think, the leadership might think that that’s something I would do. So I’m not going to implement that. And recognising that okay, I might not, but our target market might and because this idea comes from someone who is from the same market, and recognising and implementing that. That’s a really, really good point. And I think the other aspect also is the content on what’s being put out. Like you said, Gen Y and Gen X like to have fun. And so therefore the content that you put out there need to have that energy in that to attract them in the first place.

Bernie Birch: That’s very true. And also something that we’ve discovered in the last 12 months in particular is that what appeals to Gen Y doesn’t necessarily appeal to Gen X either. And Gen X have a whole different outlook on life to what Gen Y have. And Gen X now predominantly are having children and having families. So their priorities change. And so we can’t assume that just because this is going to work for someone under 28 for instance, that it’s the same, it’s going to work for someone over 34.

Liza Choa: Yeah, and what you talk about is a really good point. And that also then goes back to segmenting different communications for different groups. So that you’re always speaking a message that is relevant to that specific group. Isn’t it?

Bernie Birch: Absolutely. And you’re right to use the word “relevant”. And the other thing is of course if we’re using, for example, that if you’re doing a program or a strategy, campaign is the word I’m looking for. You’re doing a campaign and you’re using Facebook and Twitter and Pinterest and blogs. And you’re coordinating all of your social media so that you’re getting the best bang for your buck to drive people through all the different types of media and to bring them back into your website for instance. And you try and engage these people. While the challenge is the same message that you’re sending out is not going to work for everybody. And so you’ve got to come up with multiple messages to make sure you reach everybody, with the same campaign that we want to use basically.

Liza Choa: Yeah. And that itself presents some challenges isn’t it? Because then it goes to how much resources do companies have available. To be able to have, say, the same campaign but multiple messages for each of the groups so that it is relevant. And then therefore it will have a higher conversion rate.

Bernie Birch: Yup. That’s very true. And we’ve literally just had a meeting about that today. And rejigging our social media strategy to make sure that we are staying relevant. So good timing for our interview.

Liza Choa: Ah, there you go. So understanding the industry, really there are two aspects for this company. Number one is acquiring new customers so therefore they’re just a purchaser of the products. And then the other aspect is acquiring distributors. So people who want to get involved in the business side. So do you think there’s a difference in approach to acquiring these two different groups of people?

Do you think there’s a difference in approach to acquiring customers compared to distributors?

Bernie Birch: That’s an interesting question because the answer I think is yes and no. And I think it goes back to what we’ve just been talking about because a lot of the philosophy around this industry was built and developed thirty years ago. And it’s rarely changed. That’s because the main drivers of this industry have been baby boomers. And now that it’s not baby boomers who are driving the industry from a distributor business building point of view. But Gen X and Gen Y. Things have changed.

I don’t think that every company has actually kept up with that. And I think that a lot of people still assume that they can go about trying to build a business the same way. And I don’t think that you can. For example one thing that we’ve experienced is that there’s no difference in the percentage of people who will build a business. Bottom line in this industry you’re looking at 80% of people, around about, who only want to buy a product at wholesale price. So they’re not distributors. They will never sponsor. So they should be treated as such. And because of that we’ve created a program.

We did some major overhauling and changes in Reliv, some year ago. And we really changed the focus in Asia-Pacific on how we’re running the business and how we would go out to the general public. And how we would treat people and try to encourage them to engage with us in our business. So we created a third customer status. And most new companies heading into the market are doing exactly that. So the preferred customer is exactly that. They get a discount, that they’re a customer. And we treat them as such. And we promote to them from a product point of view. And with the other 20%, they want to be distributors. But only 10% will really work hard and commit enough to build a really good business to generate an income or a full time income or further. The other 10% in the middle they’ll do some sponsoring and they’ll create some volume. They’re very important to a business. But it’s the 10%, who I call the 10%ers, they’re the ones who are really going to drive your business. They’re the ones who are going to become leaders.

But this 20% of people who want to be distributors, in my experience with four different companies. That’s never changed. That’s really the 80-20 rule. We always come back to the old Pareto principle. And so having said that, we understand that.

So we very much lead with our products and our breakthrough in science that we have in our company. And we use that to attract people. And attracting people through very much the science side, the science behind the product. And from that then we qualify people for the business. And having said that the small percentage of leaders and distributors who go out there and they lead with a business. But with most people, because they’re untrained when they come into the industry, most people can’t deal with that. They don’t know how to deal with it and they’re much more comfortable leading with the science and the products. And we support that and that’s the way that we’ve been going and it’s working very well for us.

Liza Choa: Yeah what you’re actually talking about there is two terms for it, either content marketing or education marketing. And really about educating the market with the science, in your case with Reliv, is educating them about the science of the products and the benefits of the products. And when people understand that then number one, they will continue taking it, but number two, is that when they come across other people that they feel the products can benefit, they will also tell other people. Not because they want to sell, but it’s like, when something is so good you will tell your family and friends about it so that they can benefit from it as well.

So it sounds like one of the roles for a direct sales company has to evolve over time now, is become a lot more educational focused. And produce a lot of content that educate the customer or the distributors on the different products and the different ingredients. And so that they can learn and therefore they share.

Bernie Birch: Yeah that’s very true. And it’s very interesting because that is something that we’re working towards with the amount of resources that we have to actually give our people exactly what they need in that way. In training and in education is so important. And that we can only move at a pace that we’re capable of moving because of our resources, but that’s the way that we’re going, and again, it brings you back to social media. And things like YouTube. Which generally speaking if you want to learn how to do something there’s a video on YouTube to show you. And of course we’re moving on from just using YouTube to having things embedded in our website. Because the key factor for any business is to bring people back to your website. Bring people back to engage them. And hopefully buy your products, join up and become fully engaged.

Liza Choa: Yeah, and I can see with Reliv that you guys are definitely very much ahead in this space and working together with you I know that you are very big on the technology and social media. And in a lot of other companies they will have people just stay on YouTube or just on the social media platform. But you mentioned a really key point which is bringing people back to your site. Because that’s where you can have side banners to promote the latest product, or the latest event. And your website is the place that you can control. So it’s really, really important.

The other thing that I was going to ask you is within the industry, the other aspects. Once you’ve acquired customers or you’ve acquired distributors, what’s really important for the long term is actually retention. What do you see are some of the major challenges when it comes to distributor or customer retention? And what do you think are some good solutions for that?

What do you see are some of the major challenges when it comes to distributor or customer retention? And what do you think are some good solutions for that?

Bernie Birch: I think again on why it’s so important is because in the bad old days so to speak, or the good old days if that’s who you’re talking to, customer retention is much harder because the company didn’t necessarily have direct access to the customer. A lot of business was done in people’s homes where distributors would buy out inventory. And then they would take it and they would sell it. Or they’d been prepaid and they distribute the products out. Whereas now everybody, or if the company’s smart, every single customer distributor they have is dealing directly with the company. So the company has direct access through multimedia to these customers and these distributors.

Now it’s different. Because the customer’s not interested in the business. And of course we have a responsibility as a company, as a network marketing company to let everybody know about the opportunity that’s there. But we have to be very careful how we communicate that to people. We don’t want to annoy customers and lose them. So retention comes down to case of the fact that we’ve got direct contact with customers. We can promote to customers. We can promote product specials. We can promote campaigns and things like that to actually help us in that situation to keep our customer engaged with us directly in the company.

The other thing is of course the products. If your products are good and they work and people get results. Then you’re going to get people to stay on board. We’ve all seen companies that come on board, they get all the marketing in the world, they’re all fantastic, it’s all whizz bang, they like to sizzle. But that only lasts for so long if the products don’t stand up to the test of people using them and getting results. And I’m happy to say that we have a huge retention rate on customer. Because people are getting results.

Distributor retention is a different type of fish. We still have a good retention with distributors at Reliv. And I have to say it’s probably higher than most companies that I’ve worked with before. But the bottom line is the distributors. Of course now we’re separating it out. To us a distributor is someone who’s building a business and they’re not just consuming products. It they’re not sponsoring, they’re not a distributor, they’re a preferred customer.

Around distributors we engage directly with them. We are encouraging people to get into social media. Everything we do is linked with social media. And this is a major change for our company. And as I said, we started 12 months ago, but it’s really benefiting us now, we’re seeing the benefits. And we’re attracting a younger demographic, which we want. And our older distributors who have been around for quite a while, are realizing that they need to get on bandwagon and are becoming engaged in it as well. The social media has a big part to do with distributor retention. Because one other thing is that we’ve known over the years, is that studies have shown one of the main reasons that people stay in the network marketing is a sense of belonging. The fellowship that people get from it. And so social media really helps with that in this day and age where it’s harder to people to get outside and go to a meeting. And of course the other thing is money. If the compensation plan is designed in such a way that you can just, people can keep earning money, it doesn’t have to be a lot mostly. Just as long as they’re earning some money on a regular basis. Then it’s enough to keep people in. I’m not talking about the 10%, the big leaders. They’re the ones driving to increase their income, create a fulltime income or beyond. But the other distributors as well, it’s just a matter of making sure that they’re earning money on a regular basis.

Liza Choa: Yeah. And in a lot of instance I know that people get involved even at a distributor level just so that they can get their own products paid for. So for a lot of people that could just be a starting point.

Bernie Birch: That’s the first thing that we teach people.

Liza Choa: Brilliant. And what you said is so true. And the beauty now is now with technology and in addition to social media, is with emails and being able to automate email and create what we call nurturing sequence, you can even set it up so that when customers come on board this is the first email they get. This is the second one they get. This is the third one they get. And it’s all automated and all working together. And the whole point is to communicate with them and to educate them about the different products and the benefits and how to take it and so forth. It just makes the retention aspect a lot more easier. Because of the ability and the technology available to automate the process.

Bernie Birch: Yep. I couldn’t have put it better myself.

Is the a lack of resources an issue for Australian companies compared to the mother company in the US in terms of content creation and social media management?

Liza Choa: Okay so now I want to ask you a question. With us being in Australia. You touched on this briefly. Is there a lack of resources, an issue for Australian companies compared to the mother company in the US from your experience?

Bernie Birch: The short answer to that is yes. And most companies in this industry come out of the US. That’s where their headquarters are. And so consequently they’re going to have more resources there. And there’s two different types of companies I’ve learnt that are coming out of the US.

You have US companies who have business internationally, and you have international companies that are based in the US. And it’s a really significant difference because the challenge in our industry in particular, but I’ve seen it in other industries as well. The challenge for the subsidiaries that are in the other countries, is when you work for a company that’s a US company that does business internationally, their focus is on the US. They think they developed this for the US and everything else is an afterthought. So no matter how well designed they are to roll things down internationally, if their focus is US and then everyone else, it’s a much harder situation to be in.

Whereas if your company is an international company that’s based in the US, their focus and their strategy is to develop what needs to developed on a global platform. They might kick it off in the US, but they roll it out because they’ve developed it from day one to be actually an international campaign or an international philosophy. And that makes a huge difference. And I have to say that we’ve been lucky here because we’re given a lot of autonomy, with really the amount with the headquarters in St. Louis. Because they do things that we have a choice of whether we actually want to adapt that to our market or not. And if we do want to adapt it, they work with us to make sure that it’s exactly what we want. And a lot of companies aren’t that fortunate.

Liza Choa: And that also comes back down to social media and content marketing as well. Because if you got content that comes out of, for example, the US, and the language is very US centric. Like they talk about pounds instead of kilos, etc. Or even sometimes to the point of the accent that is being used. It might have an adverse effect in local markets like Australia. So that is another consideration for the direct sales industry. Where head office is in the US. Isn’t it?

Bernie Birch: Yeah very much so. And a good example with that from us is that about a year ago or so the US head office developed a series of three different short three minute videos. And one was on product. One was on the business opportunity. And one was on the science of the product. And they’re all done with American voiceovers. And what they did was when I see them, to see if we wanted to use them, which we did. And we went out and sourced our own local voiceover talent to do work with our US marketing department. And then they just basically did the voiceover on the same video. And we were able to use each one of those three videos in our own market. And we did the same thing for New Zealand by using a New Zealand voiceover. So in each market we used the local voiceover and that does make a difference. Even though we’re in a global economy, we’re in a global world, a global expanding, not philosophy, but mentality in many ways. Our mindset. People are still colloquial in many ways and they want to hear their own accent. When listening to something.

Liza Choa: Yeah, because it gives them a sense of belonging. And even though social media is global, the localisation is still really, really important. Because then it gives people the sense of belonging and is closer to home, isn’t it?

Bernie Birch: Very much so.

Do you think companies in Australia are leveraging the Internet and multimedia to its full potential?

Liza Choa: Bernie do you think companies in Australia are leveraging the Internet and multimedia to its full potential? Compared to say, the head office in US?

Bernie Birch: Well I think in some ways it’s almost too general a question because some companies in Australia are leveraging the Internet multimedia really well when their head offices aren’t. And vice versa. Some people, some companies have their head office doing it well and they’re not doing it so well commonly so to speak. And I think in Australia there’s a really wide variety of companies. If you have a look in our industry some of the really big companies obviously have the resources to throw at it, and they’re doing a much better job.

And then some of the smaller companies, because they are smaller, can be more responsive. And while they may not have as big a multimedia and internet presence, are able to react faster and change what they’re doing and have different campaigns. And just be a lot more responsive to the field. So it is a yes and no answer. There are some companies that are utilising it well. And there are other companies that aren’t doing it so well.

Liza Choa: Yeah, I agree. If Australia does really well, then the US head office might adopt what has been done out of Australia and actually then roll it out globally. So it’s really just watching the KPI and the results. And then responding accordingly, isn’t it?

Bernie Birch: Very much so. And we’ve experienced that here. We rolled out our initial strategy for Asia-Pacific a year ago, actually on the first of May last year. First in Australia and New Zealand, then rolled it out in October to the rest of Asia-Pacific. And some of what we’ve done here has been so successful that our US head office and counterparts have already rolled out some of what we’ve already done here into the US. So that’s exactly right.

What are some of the trends and opportunities you see that is happening in the direct sales industry in the next few years?

Liza Choa: Wow that’s brilliant. So last question, what are some of the trends you see that is happening in the direct sales industry in the next few years. Things such as Facebook, and Facebook marketing and so forth. Can you see some of the trends that you see is coming to the direct sales industry?

Bernie Birch: I think again it will revolve around social media. And who knows where social media is going to go in the future. I think what you look at now with the myriad of different social media. But obviously the big ones being Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, things like that, Pinterest.

In some ways I think in 20 years time, it will look so different we can’t even see today what it’s going to be like. And if we consider that fax machines back in the early 80s or the late 70s, or whenever when fax machines really were the main way of doing business and communicating between businesses. You couldn’t conceive of sitting in front of a computer and skyping somebody and have a video conversation. That was, you had to buy hardware and set up an almost video studio in your office to talk to the other opposite in another video studio. As opposed to literally downloading a software and having an onboard camera in your laptop or your tablet, and away you go.

So I don’t think any of us really know where things are going to go. But I do feel that the whole social media aspect is exactly the right way we’re going. Because it’s becoming a global community. And therefore global sponsoring is becoming more prevalent. It’s always been there to a certain degree, but we’re seeing it a lot more within our business now, because of how much easier it is.

With training for instance, video training, webinars, people can be anywhere in the world. And their sponsor can talk to them on Skype, just as easy as they can talk to someone who lives a block away from them. That makes a big difference. And in Asia-Pacific, the big trend without a doubt is through smartphones and through Wi-Fi and wireless technology.

Where there’s a high percentage of computers in a home in Australia, New Zealand, USA and other developed countries, there’s much less penetration in Asia of computers in home. And the way people are online is through their smartphone. And I look at countries like the Philippines, which in Southeast Asia, according to a study I read recently, is the fastest growing sales of smartphones in Southeast Asia. With a year on year growth of over 300% of smartphone sales. So wireless technology and being able to communicate with people, to be able to go up to someone and talk to them about the business, and go have a look at this, turn your phone around and show them a two or three minute video. That’s powerful.

And I really think that video, and audio’s always been important because people can listen to it in their cars like what we’re doing now, the power of video is just amazing. Being face to face with somebody. Or even when you’re just sitting in front of your computer you can do that. I really think that we are trending towards using online, using social media. And if everyone says if this is a face to face business, and you know what, it is. You cannot avoid the fact that more and more people are getting involved in this business through social media, through online, through prospecting in different ways, you can’t possibly go face to face with everybody.

And I really see that it’s just trending more and more and more towards social media. Which by the way is one of the things that is differentiating our baby boomer leaders away from our emerging Gen Y and Gen X leaders who are embracing this completely. While the baby boomers, some of whom embrace it, but most of them are just tolerating it and are using them as the best they can instead of engaging in it and emotionally understanding what it means to their business.

Liza Choa: Yeah, and the speed too, when you go digital. Like you know, once upon a time it was books, tapes and meetings. Now it’s blogs, podcasts and webinars. And with all of this you don’t need to go anywhere, and it is so much cheaper as well. Compared to someone buying a tape, compared to downloading for free on iTunes and having it available now. With the Gen X, Gen Y, they want everything yesterday. And digital enables that. And therefore for people who really want to embrace this industry and build it fast, they can because now the tools are available so long as the company can keep up in producing this type of content for the organisation, isn’t it?

Bernie Birch: Yeah, producing content is the biggest challenge, it is for us.

Liza Choa: Well Bernie, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciated it. You’ve shared some awesome information, as well as sharing your practical experience and application and what you’re doing in this industry is phenomenal. So for people who want to get to know you and want to connect with you what’s the best way for them to connect with you?

Bernie Birch: People are more than welcome to find me on Skype, at Bernie Birch. Or come onto Facebook, and my Facebook page for work is Bernie RAP Sales. So they can find me anywhere there.

Liza Choa: Brilliant. Well we include that in our show notes. And thank you once again Bernie, you have a good afternoon.

Bernie Birch: Thank you so much Liza.

Liza Choa: Well I hope you got some ideas from this interview with Bernie. If you like this episode, we would love to get a review or some shares from you.

By the way, are you looking for ways to maximise your sales from the internet? But not sure where to start? Why not go to our website contentmaximiser.com, and fill in the website review form. We will give you three actionable steps that you can take that can help you to engage, attract and convert more buyers for your products or services.

Well thanks for listening, and I look forward to seeing you at the next episode.

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